NTSC vs PAL
Moderator: Atari Frog
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ihatelaserbeams
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:17 pm
NTSC vs PAL
Hi, I figured someone on this board could answer this question: Is there any way to tell if an atari game is NTSC or PAL? I know many will work on either, but how do you know if any one game is PAL or NTSC specific?
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deathtrappomegranate
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:27 am
If you're talking about Atari 8-bit computer games, very few had separate PAL and NTSC versions. This means that the same game was generally sold in all regions, and that NTSC machines will run the software slightly more quickly. Some games were written to compensate for this, but not many.
The NTSC and PAL colour palettes are different too.
For 2600 carts, it's a matter of comparing the display to a known screenshot, checking for "roll" or other indications of TV system incompatibility, or examining the code.
The NTSC and PAL colour palettes are different too.
For 2600 carts, it's a matter of comparing the display to a known screenshot, checking for "roll" or other indications of TV system incompatibility, or examining the code.
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JamesTheOrangeCat
- Posts: 21
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- Location: lounging on freshly cleaned clothes
The seller of this ebay item ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1 ) says, "Atari 800 cartridges dont have specific regions, the same cart is usable in both PAL and NTSC countries."
Is this always true? Meaning you only have to worry about NTSC vs. PAL issues for disk and tape games, but not for 8-bit cartridges?
Is this always true? Meaning you only have to worry about NTSC vs. PAL issues for disk and tape games, but not for 8-bit cartridges?
The statement from that seller is accurate but misleading.
It is true that cartridges are NOT marked for a specific region or TV norm, as do happens in other platforms. This doesn't mean that the software will behave exactly the same on PAL and NTSC.
As deathtrappomegranate explained, on most cases (disregarding if they are tapes, disks or carts) they run slower in PAL than in NTSC. Most carts were developed in the US, so this means that they will run slower than the original design on PAL systems.
Some software do not run at all on the "wrong" system. But in most of this cases it is a protection issue. I doubt it affects any cartridge.
Some later european software doesn't run on NTSC systems because of display issues. But here again, I doubt any of those was released in cart.
It is true that cartridges are NOT marked for a specific region or TV norm, as do happens in other platforms. This doesn't mean that the software will behave exactly the same on PAL and NTSC.
As deathtrappomegranate explained, on most cases (disregarding if they are tapes, disks or carts) they run slower in PAL than in NTSC. Most carts were developed in the US, so this means that they will run slower than the original design on PAL systems.
Some software do not run at all on the "wrong" system. But in most of this cases it is a protection issue. I doubt it affects any cartridge.
Some later european software doesn't run on NTSC systems because of display issues. But here again, I doubt any of those was released in cart.
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carmel_andrews
- Posts: 37
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- Location: London UK
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ntsc/pal
i think the atari hardware locations (Antic or GTIA) had a specific location for determining PAL or NTSC hardware
Don't ask me which location or whether it was antic or g/ctia as i don't hard compute's or twaug's mapping atari book in front of me at the mo
I think that the same location also supported secam (france/russia)
Don't ask me which location or whether it was antic or g/ctia as i don't hard compute's or twaug's mapping atari book in front of me at the mo
I think that the same location also supported secam (france/russia)
Re: ntsc/pal
Yes, there is a PAL register in CTIA/GTIA. But this tells you if the computer is NTSC or PAL, it doesn't tell anything about the cartridge currently inserted.carmel_andrews wrote:i think the atari hardware locations (Antic or GTIA) had a specific location for determining PAL or NTSC hardware
Difference between PAL and NTSC
I'm not sure if I have read everything about this, in this thread or not - but from what I know, this is probably something not generally known.
Because of the 50Hz/60Hz cycle difference, this automatically means that NTSC running at 50 cycles, is running faster than PAL at 60 cycles and when you see the same game running side by side, it is immediately obvious the speed differences, with the NTSC music running faster. Action gameplay is a bit more frantic too!
Artifacting only works with NTSC which produces true colours, PAL users don't see any proper colour at all, but something kinda weird. Games that comes to mind, are Drol, Threshold, the Pinball Construction Set games.
Programmers use the VBI (vertical blank interrupt) as a way of doing more with their programming in pushing the Atari hardware to it's limits and beyond -- can actually do more, because of the cycle difference -
in essence making it PAL only in the process.
Like in "HawkQuest" Andrew Bradfield in writing a Xevious like game,
had to contend with the fact that the Players/Missiles available are very limited indeed. And so, with only 1 Player available (a Player is a vertical ribbon sprite), via the VBI he cuts it into several sprites and moves these down the screen (they cannot however overlap - because they are part of the same Player). From memory, I think there are only 4 Players and 4 missiles available, if you don't need the missiles, they can be used as a 5th Player.
In comparison the C64 had more sprites available - and every other home computer/videogame console thereafter increased the number of sprites available to use - not limiting the programmer anymore.
Anyway I am not a programmer - but I think I have written it, as it is...?
Harvey
Because of the 50Hz/60Hz cycle difference, this automatically means that NTSC running at 50 cycles, is running faster than PAL at 60 cycles and when you see the same game running side by side, it is immediately obvious the speed differences, with the NTSC music running faster. Action gameplay is a bit more frantic too!
Artifacting only works with NTSC which produces true colours, PAL users don't see any proper colour at all, but something kinda weird. Games that comes to mind, are Drol, Threshold, the Pinball Construction Set games.
Programmers use the VBI (vertical blank interrupt) as a way of doing more with their programming in pushing the Atari hardware to it's limits and beyond -- can actually do more, because of the cycle difference -
in essence making it PAL only in the process.
Like in "HawkQuest" Andrew Bradfield in writing a Xevious like game,
had to contend with the fact that the Players/Missiles available are very limited indeed. And so, with only 1 Player available (a Player is a vertical ribbon sprite), via the VBI he cuts it into several sprites and moves these down the screen (they cannot however overlap - because they are part of the same Player). From memory, I think there are only 4 Players and 4 missiles available, if you don't need the missiles, they can be used as a 5th Player.
In comparison the C64 had more sprites available - and every other home computer/videogame console thereafter increased the number of sprites available to use - not limiting the programmer anymore.
Anyway I am not a programmer - but I think I have written it, as it is...?
Harvey