Which Atari should I buy?

[osgorth]

Since I'm quite a newbie when it comes to Atari hardware.. Yeah, I've never actually owned one, just a couple of 2600s and an ST briefly! I'm actually a Commodore guy at heart.. *hides quickly*

The thing is, I'm offered to buy a 130XE quite cheaply, is this a good machine or should I try to find something else, and if so, which model? What I value most of all is compatibility. It must be able to play all the old stuff, since that's where my focus is primarily (1980-1985). It comes with a tape deck only, so I'll need to locate a disk drive someplace too.. What disk drive should I get?

It's quite difficult finding Atari computers up here, so if the 130 isn't the model you'd recommend me to get, I'd welcome any help in obtaining the Right Stuff, so to speak.

[Andre]

The thing is, I'm offered to buy a 130XE quite cheaply, is this a good machine or should I try to find something else, and if so, which model?

The 130XE is a newer machine from the Atari 8-Bit line. For me, it's the best of all - superb design (there is NO other 8Bit machine looking that good) and excellent technical specs.

What I value most of all is compatibility. It must be able to play all the old stuff, since that's where my focus is primarily (1980-1985).

There the problems certainly will start: since Atari changed/upgraded the operating system of their machines during these 5 years you probably will encounter severe compatibility problems. Namely, the OS of the 400/800 differs from the one of the 1200XL which again is different from the OS the 800XL and 130XE came with. Games that use "forbidden" pointers of a certain OS won't work with newer OSes and likely vice versa.

To make it short: Either buy a computer from the 400/800 model line plus a newer machine like 800Xl or 130XE or just buy a computer with switchable OSes (which is harder to get, of course).

It comes with a tape deck only, so I'll need to locate a disk drive someplace too.. What disk drive should I get?

The cheapest thing should work for your purposes: a stock 1050 drive. Make sure you get the SIO cable also.

Note: you cannot copy protected stuff with stock drives!

[Atari Frog]

There are some incompatibility issues with old games but I'd still take the 130XE over the 800. With disk and tape games, you can also load a Translator first for 99.9% compatibility.

--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com

[osgorth]

Ah, thanks guys. So, in short, the 130 will work fine if using the Translator? I'm basically only going to do tape and disk games, so that should be fine..?

What's a SIO cable? What do I need to copy protected disks, is that it or do I need a different drive?

Thanks!

[Andre]

So, in short, the 130 will work fine if using the Translator? I'm basically only going to do tape and disk games, so that should be fine..?

Then it should be perfect for you

What's a SIO cable?

SIO = Serial Input Output

It's the cable you need to plug drive and computer together. Since the Ataris use a more sophisticated data transfer technique than the Commodore 8-Bit stuff you will be surprised how fast a stock disk drive (i.e., 1050) can be

What do I need to copy protected disks

At least you need some hardware modification (some sort of disk drive upgrade) like Happy or Speedy. But these tools will copy only simple protection schemes - like those that come with SSI stuff Maybe Ijor can tell some more about this topic

[deathtrappomegranate]

For compatibility, the guys are right. The 130XE is compatible with almost everything. Most of the rest will work with a translator, but there are a few titles here and there that require the old hardware, or, as André says, a switchable OS.

From an aesthetic point of view, I think that the old 800 is the queen of them all, but for functionality the 130xe is better.

As for disk drives, unless you want to get into copying, a standard 1050 is as good as anything else.

If you do want to get into copying, then Ijor is definitely the person to advise you.

And don't worry about the Commodore thing - we were all young once!

[osgorth]

Hehe, thanks again. Right, I'll probably pick it up then, it's very cheap (about 10 euros!), I'll just see if it's working first.. If it's not, I'll just talk Andre into buying a working setup for me, you up to that?

I heard some good things about the 800XE, I'm not familiar with that one though.. Is that a German thing or what is it, exactly? It looks like a 130 from what I've seen.

Yep, I'll have a talk with Ijor whenever I get the thing up and running! Probably have some stuff worth preserving.

Contrary to popular belief, there's still a lot of life in the Commodores though! It's one hell of a machine, I think nobody should be without one. Granted, usually the Atari versions of shared games are better, but not always.. And the C64 has so much stuff that never made it to the Atari, so that's a reason alone for having one.

Final stupid question for today: will the Ataris work fine on a C64-style monitor, i.e. composite video or RGB? I'm assuming as much, but I don't really know.. Man, I feel like I'm ten years old again, knowing nothing..

[deathtrappomegranate]

Hehe, thanks again. Right, I'll probably pick it up then, it's very cheap (about 10 euros!), I'll just see if it's working first.. If it's not, I'll just talk Andre into buying a working setup for me, you up to that?

I heard some good things about the 800XE, I'm not familiar with that one though.. Is that a German thing or what is it, exactly? It looks like a 130 from what I've seen.

Yep, I'll have a talk with Ijor whenever I get the thing up and running! Probably have some stuff worth preserving.

Contrary to popular belief, there's still a lot of life in the Commodores though! It's one hell of a machine, I think nobody should be without one. Granted, usually the Atari versions of shared games are better, but not always.. And the C64 has so much stuff that never made it to the Atari, so that's a reason alone for having one.

Final stupid question for today: will the Ataris work fine on a C64-style monitor, i.e. composite video or RGB? I'm assuming as much, but I don't really know.. Man, I feel like I'm ten years old again, knowing nothing..

Heh - I have a couple of C64s myself (but don't tell anyone ).

The monitor pinouts for the C64 and those 8-bit Ataris having a monitor port are the same, so you should have no problems using the same monitor and cable as you do for a C64. Well, unless you get a SECAM Atari...

The 800XE is pretty much a 65XE. It was mainly sold in Germany, and most of the examples I've seen were from the former DDR, including the one that I have now.

For €10 you must pick up that machine!

[Andre]

If it's not, I'll just talk Andre into buying a working setup for me

I have all the equipment you will need

I heard some good things about the 800XE, I'm not familiar with that one though.. Is that a German thing or what is it, exactly? It looks like a 130 from what I've seen.

Short version: 800XE = 130XE - 64kB RAM.

Long version: The 800XE is exactly the same as the 130XE but has less RAM (64k instead of 128k).

And the C64 has so much stuff that never made it to the Atari, so that's a reason alone for having one.

I tell you a secret: I am a big fan of the Last Ninja tunes. That's why I even bought these games (I, II and cartridge).

will the Ataris work fine on a C64-style monitor, i.e. composite video or RGB?

Yes! At least the German devices will do

[ijor]

What do I need to copy protected disks ...
Yep, I'll have a talk with Ijor whenever I get the thing up and running! Probably have some stuff worth preserving.

Considering you are a C-64 user (and perhaps an Amiga user as well) your best option might be a Catweasel plus a 5.25 PC drive.

The Catweasel is a PCI card (well, the earliest model was ISA), it is manufactured by a small company in Germany with a retail price close to 100 Euros. You will be able to copy protected stuff for most platforms with the right software. You of course need a 5.25 PC drive (preferably an old 360k drive, and not a 1.2 MB one); they are not so hard to find.

The Catweasel is made by a C=64/Amiga guy, so it comes with built-in software for reading C-64/Amiga unprotected disks on the PC.

As mentioned here, the other option would be an enhanced Atari drive (like Happy or Speedy). They are easy to find and very affordable. You can copy most disk with them except the ones with heavier copy protection. If you are a Synapse fan, then consider that most Synapse titles except the earliest ones fall in this (heavier copy protected) category.

[osgorth]

Right, now that you mention it, I actually do have a Catweasel Mk4 card that I've not tested yet.. Bought it right before I abandoned my PC, and forgot about it, hehe. PCs suck, by the way! (I'm a Mac user

I'll have to try to revive that stupid box some day and see if I can get it to work.

[ijor]

The MK4, in theory, should work with the MAC. But I'm not sure anybody actually tested, and I'm not aware of any driver or software for the MAC.

This is probably obvious, but note again that you need a 5.25 drive on your PC if you want to handle A8 (or C-64) disks.

I forgot to mention that the MK4 has other goodies for vintage computing. Such as a port for connecting Atari joysticks, mouse and Amiga keyboard, etc. Oh well, I guess this won't make you abandon your Mac for a PC but I guess I should mention.

[osgorth]

No worries, I still have a PC, it's just that I got sick and tired of it because it gave me so much problems.. Windows, you know.

Ever since I bought a PowerMac though, I don't even look at the PC. Man, I should have made the switch years ago! It's so vastly superior in almost every conceivable way, it's almost funny. And I even work at a major PC manufacturer, haha.

Yes, I actually bought the MK4 just to be able to use real joysticks in emulators, with the imaging option a close second reason. I just need more TIME, that's what hinders me.. But well, we have long and cold winters up here, I'm sure I'll find some time to play with it!

Yep, need to get a 5.25" drive too. I have one, but it's 1.2MB and I doubt that'll be too successful (although some people claim they do work fine, I'm not going to count on it).

[ijor]

Yep, need to get a 5.25" drive too. I have one, but it's 1.2MB and I doubt that'll be too successful (although some people claim they do work fine, I'm not going to count on it).

An 80 tracks (1.2MB) drive is ok for imaging, but it is troublesome for writing back. That is, if all you want is make images for preservation purposes, then it is fine. The problem is if you want to make a physical copy or writing an image back to a physical disk.

It is still possible to use an 80 tracks drive to write back, but you need to use virgin unformatted disks. And you can't really unformat a disk with a drive. Once it is written you need to use special equipment to degauss it (or manually use a big magnet) to bring it back to a virgin state.

But again, 360k drives are not so hard to find and not really expensive either.

[ijor]

I forgot another issue. You usually can't image the flippy (back) side with a 1.2MB drive. This is not strictly related to the drive being 360K or 1.2Mb. Some 360K drives can't access the flippy side either. But most 360K ones I've seen can, and all 1.2Mb I've seen cannot.