Us gold releases

ijor · Post by **ijor** » Fri May 20, 2005 2:58 pm

I hope you don't mind I import a topic from other forum, but I think it's more interesting here

Atari Frog wrote:If you're referring to the code itself, disk only US Gold games (like Beach Head, the SSI stuff, Ultima III and IV...) are 100% the same as the original American versions.

I don't have many euro disks, and I'm really not very familiar with euro releases. But of the few ones I have, most of the time the disk is different than the US version.

One I remember very well is Questron from SSI. At least, the protection is completely different.

I don't know if Questron qualifies as "Us Gold" release or not. But my copy has both brands "Us Gold" and "All American..", both in the box and in the disk labels. What exactly is "All American"? A publisher, a division from Us Gold, or what?

Of course, it is possible that after the initial screen and protection check, then the code is exactly the same. Actually this is very likely. And as said, I have too few euro releases, so may be the ones I have are exceptions.

Post by **Atari Frog** » Fri May 20, 2005 3:52 pm

You have the UK release of Questron? That one is really rare!

Interesting, it seems I was wrong about the code and protection being the same then. In short, what it means is that US Gold really handled the duplication process and just didnt "relabel" SSI disks that had the code already, right? The later non-arcade games from US Gold probably didn't sell a lot on the Atari but it's nice to see the company wanted to do it their way and not go for a complete rush job...

All American Adventures is a division / label of US Gold, just like Americana or SynSoft.

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ijor · Post by **ijor** » Fri May 20, 2005 4:18 pm

Atari Frog wrote:You have the UK release of Questron? That one is really rare!

Yep, and I really cursed the seller when I received it

I was actually looking for the US version. At that time I was unaware there was an Euro version. I wanted the US version because the copy protection is very advanced. When I received the Uk version and found out it has a simple (on disk) copy protection, I filled pissed off. Eventually I got the US version as well, not that rare.

In short, what it means is that US Gold really handled the duplication process and just didnt "relabel" SSI disks that had the code already, right?

I think it’s a protection issue. At they early years it wasn’t easy to duplicate advanced protections. Duplicators were extremely expensive, and even then they couldn’t handle all type of protections. Companies offering duplicating services were very scarce too. As a matter of fact, most earlier releases weren’t duplicated with “professional industrial” duplicators. I think ECA was the first company that used industrial duplication services.

Eventually duplicators became more affordable, not for an individual, but yes for companies. They also evolved to be more sophisticated for handling protections. Duplicating services became a prolific industry as well.

This might be the reason for the Datasoft label on the US release of Alternate Reality. I’m speculating. But it’s possible that Philip Price didn’t want to open his protection. The City has the most advanced copy protection of all Datasoft releases. Even heavier than the Dungeon. So he might have insisted on using exactly the same protection for world wide distribution.

Post by **Atari Frog** » Fri May 20, 2005 4:40 pm

ijor wrote:This might be the reason for the Datasoft label on the US release of Alternate Reality. I’m speculating. But it’s possible that Philip Price didn’t want to open his protection. The City has the most advanced copy protection of all Datasoft releases. Even heavier than the Dungeon. So he might have insisted on using exactly the same protection for world wide distribution.

I also think it was too expensive for US Gold to change anything. However, I doubt Philip Price was consulted...

Alternate Reality was released in Europe at least a year after the game appeared in the US. Not really sure Datasoft was considering European distribution in the first place. US Gold may have been happy getting the rights but they probably didn't make too much money with the game (if at all).

All this rambling about Philip Price using a PAL computer is pure science-fiction given the small, mainly tape-based UK market.

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ijor · Post by **ijor** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:31 pm

Atari Frog wrote:I also think it was too expensive for US Gold to change anything. However, I doubt Philip Price was consulted...

This is more or less my point. If US Gold didn't release the source code (probably didn't) they couldn't use their own protection. And it might be too difficult/expensive for them to duplicate the same protection. So they have no choice but distributing Datasoft disks.

You are probably right that PP wasn't consulted. But the way he designed the protection is relevant. The protection in AR is part of the main code. So you can't change the protection without the source. This is contrast, for example, with most ECA titles. ECA games have an external copy protected loader that is not part of the main code. So you can change the protection without the source of the game.

I'll be wiser about the topic after getting some copy protected images from your euro releases. I'm specially interested in the Synsoft versions. Synapse protections are perhaps the most advanced of all 8-bit games. Furthermore, they used advanced techniques before anyone else. Will be interesting to see if Synsoft releases have the same protection or not.

Post by **Atari Frog** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:45 pm

ijor wrote:I'll be wiser about the topic after getting some copy protected images from your euro releases. I'm specially interested in the Synsoft versions. Synapse protections are perhaps the most advanced of all 8-bit games. Furthermore, they used advanced techniques before anyone else. Will be interesting to see if Synsoft releases have the same protection or not.

SynSoft tapes and disks have different copy protections and modified code as well: extra loading screen, different in-game copyright...

What about Polish programs? Did you study the different protections for these games yet?

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ijor · Post by **ijor** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:16 pm

Atari Frog wrote:SynSoft tapes and disks have different copy protections

Aha, thanks for the information. What about Databyte?

Databyte had the rights for Datamost and First Star Software. Two other companies that made earlier use of advanced copy protection techniques.

Furthermore. For ST games, some Databyte releases of US games are (by far) the most heavily copy protected of all ST disks.

What about Polish programs? Did you study the different protections for these games yet?

No idea. I don't think I have any original Polish disk. Will be interesting but not too much. Software published post-mortem (after the 8-bit was no longer produced) is a completely different topic. At that time, it was much easier to make advanced copy protections.

I suppose most Polish releases are very late. If not post-mosterm, very close, I guess.

Post by **Atari Frog** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:33 pm

ijor wrote:Aha, thanks for the information. What about Databyte? Databyte had the rights for Datamost and First Star Software. Two other companies that made earlier use of advanced copy protection techniques.

Different as well I believe. There were some timing issues with Databyte protections IIRC. Databyte games also have extra loading text as well.

I suppose most Polish releases are very late. If not post-mosterm, very close, I guess.

1989-95 mainly but Sikor Soft released commercial games as late as 2000...

Edit... 5000

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Post by **Andre** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:39 pm

Atari Frog wrote: What about Polish programs? Did you study the different protections for these games yet?

Not worse to be called "copy protected" - at least not the games that I have dismantled. Ok, there are some games with in-game password protection - these are difficult to break, of course.

Ijor wrote:At that time I was unaware there was an Euro version.

Several SSI games have been re-released in europe in those black plastic folders. Besides Questron you mentioned I have Gemstone Warrior and Tigers in the Snow (which, interestingly enough, does not show a swastika on its cover as opposite to the US release) as european re-release. These europe releases are exceptionally scarce.

Ijor wrote:Synapse protections are perhaps the most advanced of all 8-bit games.

The game Fort Apocalypse I converted from disk to atr had a very simple protection.

I think the most difficult to crack protections came with games from Broderbund, First Star and Datamost. Some Datasoft titles are heavily copy protected also.

Post by **Andre** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:41 pm

Atari Frog wrote: Edit... 5000

Wow! Post number 5000!

ijor · Post by **ijor** » Fri May 20, 2005 6:54 pm

Andre wrote:The game Fort Apocalypse I converted from disk to atr had a very simple protection.

I think the most difficult to crack protections came with games from Broderbund, First Star and Datamost. Some Datasoft titles are heavily copy protected also.

Andre, you are talking about a different thing.

There are (at least) two aspects for the copy protection. One aspect is the on disk copy protection. This is what makes difficult to copy the disk. Another one is the software protection, what makes difficult to crack it. Sometimes they are related, sometimes not. A disk might be extremely difficult to copy, but easy to crack. And viceversa.

If was of course talking about the on-disk copy protection (This is what my project is all about)