Hi.
All my original Atari disks were copied into .ATR images, all of which work fine in ATARI800 emulator, however, just about ANY game that I download from this site, has either an .ATX or .XEX extension, neither of which will load into my emulator.
Do you have a link to somewhere on your site, which explains what these different image extensions mean/are for, and most importantly WHY the disk images are not .ATR or .XFD - the two most common Atari disk image filename extensions...
I tried renaming an .ATX to an .ATR, but this crashed the emulator, so there is obviously some sort of compatibility issue here that I need to know about.
Thanks.
Image file extensions...
Moderator: Atari Frog
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deathtrappomegranate
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:27 am
Re: Image file extensions...
You might find this link useful: http://www.atarimania.com/vapi.php?MENU=8&RUB=VAPIAtari-ish wrote:Hi.
All my original Atari disks were copied into .ATR images, all of which work fine in ATARI800 emulator, however, just about ANY game that I download from this site, has either an .ATX or .XEX extension, neither of which will load into my emulator.
Do you have a link to somewhere on your site, which explains what these different image extensions mean/are for, and most importantly WHY the disk images are not .ATR or .XFD - the two most common Atari disk image filename extensions...
I tried renaming an .ATX to an .ATR, but this crashed the emulator, so there is obviously some sort of compatibility issue here that I need to know about.
Thanks.
We want to preserve all software in its original form (ie not "cracked" or otherwise altered).
The VAPI format, with its .atx file extension, allows us to do just that - to make exact images of copy-protected disks, with all the original code and original protection intact.
This is work-in-progress. Many of the disk images on the site are still in .atr format, because there are still many hundreds of disks which have not yet been imaged in VAPI format.
The link above will allow you to download a patched version of the Atari 800WinPlus emulator, with .atx file support included. VAPI files can also be used with SIO2PC hardware, to use the software on a real Atari 8-bit computer.
So, we want to preserve *original* software in its *original* state. For disks, VAPI is the only game in town.
I commend you want to save original disk images, but this is not 1984.
Surely, the copyright on these old games has expired, and as such, bog-standard ATR images are acceptable???
I mean, the idea is fantastic - preserved Atari disks in their all-original copy-protected format.
Great!
...if this were twenty years ago.
I'm sorry - i just don't see the logic in saving 20-25 year-old disk images, in a copy protected image format, such that many people can't use them without extra DLL's which for the most part, are questionable in their compatibility and stability(by the link's own admission!).
GRANTED - This is a work in progress, but WHY EVEN BOTHER?
All Atari games are at least 20 years old, some are more then 30 years old. You can't tell me, that everyone is wanting to copy, copy-protected games from 30 years ago - all these games' copyright should have expired by now, what with all the PlayStation II's and Xbox's on the scene, nobody CARES about 25-30 year-old Atari dinosaurs - no-one but the die-hard Atari users would EVER want them, and that can surely not add up to millions and millions of people.
If by some bizarre reasons, the copyright still exists for games etc this old, then they should be in the public domain by now, and if not, all games etc which come under copyright, should simply not be listed. That prevents you guys from copping any flack on the copyright issue, and allows you to list standard ATR images...
Making images available for download - in ATR, ATX or XFD format, is technically illegal, if a copyright does still exist - original copy-protection in place or not.(read: ATX or ATR)
In my opinion, Atari users, are skipping this site, as soon as they understand(just like me), that you are looking to preserve 30 year-old copy protection in the process of making the disk images - Jeez.
However - this is your site, so I suppose it is up to you in the end.
(but frankly, I think ATX is a pain, when there are more simple methods.)
Surely, the copyright on these old games has expired, and as such, bog-standard ATR images are acceptable???
I mean, the idea is fantastic - preserved Atari disks in their all-original copy-protected format.
Great!
...if this were twenty years ago.
I'm sorry - i just don't see the logic in saving 20-25 year-old disk images, in a copy protected image format, such that many people can't use them without extra DLL's which for the most part, are questionable in their compatibility and stability(by the link's own admission!).
GRANTED - This is a work in progress, but WHY EVEN BOTHER?
All Atari games are at least 20 years old, some are more then 30 years old. You can't tell me, that everyone is wanting to copy, copy-protected games from 30 years ago - all these games' copyright should have expired by now, what with all the PlayStation II's and Xbox's on the scene, nobody CARES about 25-30 year-old Atari dinosaurs - no-one but the die-hard Atari users would EVER want them, and that can surely not add up to millions and millions of people.
If by some bizarre reasons, the copyright still exists for games etc this old, then they should be in the public domain by now, and if not, all games etc which come under copyright, should simply not be listed. That prevents you guys from copping any flack on the copyright issue, and allows you to list standard ATR images...
Making images available for download - in ATR, ATX or XFD format, is technically illegal, if a copyright does still exist - original copy-protection in place or not.(read: ATX or ATR)
In my opinion, Atari users, are skipping this site, as soon as they understand(just like me), that you are looking to preserve 30 year-old copy protection in the process of making the disk images - Jeez.
However - this is your site, so I suppose it is up to you in the end.
(but frankly, I think ATX is a pain, when there are more simple methods.)
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deathtrappomegranate
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:27 am
The point of preserving the original copy-protection schemes is *not* to prevent people making copies.
In order to convert protected disks to .atr format, it is necessary to alter the original code in some way. This is because the .atr format is not capable of storing all of the required information. Altering the code means that the disk image is a "crack".
We believe that the images should be *identical* to the originals.
As for the emulator issues, we hope that .atx support will become a standard feature in the future.
There are many websites where you can download hacked, corrupted, and otherwise altered .atr images. Atarimania seeks to preserve and archive the original material.
In order to convert protected disks to .atr format, it is necessary to alter the original code in some way. This is because the .atr format is not capable of storing all of the required information. Altering the code means that the disk image is a "crack".
We believe that the images should be *identical* to the originals.
As for the emulator issues, we hope that .atx support will become a standard feature in the future.
There are many websites where you can download hacked, corrupted, and otherwise altered .atr images. Atarimania seeks to preserve and archive the original material.
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Atari Frog
- Posts: 2875
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:08 pm
Hi,
Thank you for giving your opinion, I'll try to answer some of the points here as well.
First of all, you're probably right that things aren't clear enough for the beginner. If we can remedy this in the future, we will.
Particularly if you are using emulators, why not choose the authentic route? I think a number of people are happy to use unbotched and uncracked games. On a personal level, I like to see programs the way they really were (with intro for example) and without an ugly "pirated by X" mention.
On another note, the games are freely downloadable and nothing prevents people to crack the ones that had never been dumped before. Check some of the other pages and you'll notice some folks have done this already. If you feel more comfortable with ATR images, I say go for it. At least give us credit for dumping some rare stuff that you probably wouldn't have seen before
This being said, aren't we giving too much importance to this? I mean, it isn't an invasion either: there are just over a hundred of these images and a lot of stuff is still in cracked form on the site. Still, our goal certainly isn't to be the millionth warez site: we DO aim for quality in place of some mess with no historical facts (nowhere else will you find as much information on Atari 8-bit games as here, just check how many scanned boxes and ads we have for example!).
There also seems to be a misconception that we're only after original stuff. That's wrong, we're just trying to be as organized as possible. The site could also benefit from avid Atari users such as yourself. If you transferred hundreds of disks from your personal collection, please check our MIA list at http://www.atarimania.com/MIA_January_2008.zip and help us with our
project. I'll write it again: we will accept any game from this list that hasn't been dumped yet, even in pirated form, as it's better to have a cracked copy than nothing at all.
--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com
Thank you for giving your opinion, I'll try to answer some of the points here as well.
First of all, you're probably right that things aren't clear enough for the beginner. If we can remedy this in the future, we will.
This isn't about copyright or elitism, it's about preserving the past as accurately as possible and having something organized. We could also point you to other similar sites which are doing the very same thing as us on other systems. We aren't pretentious to the point of insisting on the use of original ATX images but maybe we are when it comes to pointing out how shitty collections such as TOSEC are.Atari-ish wrote:I commend you want to save original disk images, but this is not 1984. urely, the copyright on these old games has expired, and as such, bog-standard ATR images are acceptable???
Particularly if you are using emulators, why not choose the authentic route? I think a number of people are happy to use unbotched and uncracked games. On a personal level, I like to see programs the way they really were (with intro for example) and without an ugly "pirated by X" mention.
On another note, the games are freely downloadable and nothing prevents people to crack the ones that had never been dumped before. Check some of the other pages and you'll notice some folks have done this already. If you feel more comfortable with ATR images, I say go for it. At least give us credit for dumping some rare stuff that you probably wouldn't have seen before
This being said, aren't we giving too much importance to this? I mean, it isn't an invasion either: there are just over a hundred of these images and a lot of stuff is still in cracked form on the site. Still, our goal certainly isn't to be the millionth warez site: we DO aim for quality in place of some mess with no historical facts (nowhere else will you find as much information on Atari 8-bit games as here, just check how many scanned boxes and ads we have for example!).
There also seems to be a misconception that we're only after original stuff. That's wrong, we're just trying to be as organized as possible. The site could also benefit from avid Atari users such as yourself. If you transferred hundreds of disks from your personal collection, please check our MIA list at http://www.atarimania.com/MIA_January_2008.zip and help us with our
project. I'll write it again: we will accept any game from this list that hasn't been dumped yet, even in pirated form, as it's better to have a cracked copy than nothing at all.
--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com